Discussion:
[blfs-dev] Perl modules branch: An invitation to the brave
Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
2018-11-05 00:36:19 UTC
Permalink
I think that the perl modules branch (perl dependencies broken down
into those modules directly referenced by other packages in the book,
and a second page of those which are only there as dependencies of
other modules) are now ready for testing by the brave, and for
review.

Rendered versions at:
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~ken/perl-changes/

The date is 2nd November because I have only merged trunk changes up
to r20669.

If you use cpan to install modules, this does not apply to you and
you will continue to get whatever dependencies upstream lists,
whether or not they are useful (e.g. sometimes use of a package is
removed but in lingers in the prerequisites, other times a
dependency extends the test coverage but the tests will still pass
without it).

At this point, there are probably some errors. In particular, I
note that HTTP::Form has dropped out of the libwww-perl
dependencies. That *appears* to be correct, but it looks
suspicious and I won't be able to test that myself until I build a
fresh system. That is perhaps a week away, I need to update my own
scripts (to match the book) first, and then test building biber.

For all modules, dependencies should be built in the listed
(alphabetical) order - some deps are pulled in by multiple modules,
and for any given module my aim is to only list them once.
Similarly, if you run the tests (for a few years I have tested most
perl modules, but I can see that omitting tests will save time) the
dependencies are written on the assumption that you will pick a
top-level module and run tests both for it and all its dependencies,
so things like e.g. Test::Warnings might only be mentioned in one of
the dependencies, even though the top-level module also needs it for
its tests.

There may still be issues with biber (perhaps, missing test
dependencies if the perl modules are built without those, or issues
with remote https:// links to bibliographies in the absence of
Mozilla::CA - that should work, but all my systems where biber can
be built already have that installed, so again I'll need to do a
fresh system build to test that.

But if you build perl modules without using cpan, please take a look
at this. Thanks.

ĸen
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Bruce Dubbs via blfs-dev
2018-11-05 02:41:28 UTC
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Post by Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
I think that the perl modules branch (perl dependencies broken down
into those modules directly referenced by other packages in the book,
and a second page of those which are only there as dependencies of
other modules) are now ready for testing by the brave, and for
review.
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~ken/perl-changes/
The date is 2nd November because I have only merged trunk changes up
to r20669.
If you use cpan to install modules, this does not apply to you and
you will continue to get whatever dependencies upstream lists,
whether or not they are useful (e.g. sometimes use of a package is
removed but in lingers in the prerequisites, other times a
dependency extends the test coverage but the tests will still pass
without it).
Ken, I appreciate all the work you put into this. As you know, I
generally use the cpan method to install modules. During the BLFS
release process I generally build all the perl modules when I get to the
first requirement.

One question I have is what are the consequences of using the cpan
install for LWP::Protocol::https? That does not use the patch. As best
I can tell, a grep for LWP::Protocol::https only shows up in biber and
then only in XML comments. Can you clarify?

-- Bruce
Post by Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
At this point, there are probably some errors. In particular, I
note that HTTP::Form has dropped out of the libwww-perl
dependencies. That *appears* to be correct, but it looks
suspicious and I won't be able to test that myself until I build a
fresh system. That is perhaps a week away, I need to update my own
scripts (to match the book) first, and then test building biber.
For all modules, dependencies should be built in the listed
(alphabetical) order - some deps are pulled in by multiple modules,
and for any given module my aim is to only list them once.
Similarly, if you run the tests (for a few years I have tested most
perl modules, but I can see that omitting tests will save time) the
dependencies are written on the assumption that you will pick a
top-level module and run tests both for it and all its dependencies,
so things like e.g. Test::Warnings might only be mentioned in one of
the dependencies, even though the top-level module also needs it for
its tests.
There may still be issues with biber (perhaps, missing test
dependencies if the perl modules are built without those, or issues
with remote https:// links to bibliographies in the absence of
Mozilla::CA - that should work, but all my systems where biber can
be built already have that installed, so again I'll need to do a
fresh system build to test that.
But if you build perl modules without using cpan, please take a look
at this. Thanks.
ĸen
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Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
2018-11-05 03:39:58 UTC
Permalink
One question I have is what are the consequences of using the cpan install
for LWP::Protocol::https? That does not use the patch. As best I can tell,
a grep for LWP::Protocol::https only shows up in biber and then only in XML
comments. Can you clarify?
We mention LWP::Protocol:https in libwww-perl, unless I accidentally
deleted that (which is possible) - something like "if you wish to
use https:// now install LWP::Protocol::https".

That probably dates from somebody (looking at other changes a couple
of days ago, I guess it was Randy) having enthusiasm for Perl
modules.

But to answer the question: if you use remote bib (i.e.
bibliography) files (accessed by https://) in biber, the CPAN
install will use Mozilla::CA to validate the certificates - and
Mozilla::CA was last updated in January so it lags behind the system
certificates from mozilla, and it also will not use any local
certificates.

However, using remote bib files (which only works with biber, not
the earlier (La)TeX bibliography package - bibtex, I think) is not
a common thing.

And I think I mentioned it in the initial paragraphs of the new
perl-modules page.

ĸen
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Bruce Dubbs via blfs-dev
2018-11-05 15:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
One question I have is what are the consequences of using the cpan install
for LWP::Protocol::https? That does not use the patch. As best I can tell,
a grep for LWP::Protocol::https only shows up in biber and then only in XML
comments. Can you clarify?
We mention LWP::Protocol:https in libwww-perl, unless I accidentally
deleted that (which is possible) - something like "if you wish to
use https:// now install LWP::Protocol::https".
It does say in LWP::Protocol::https that it provides https support for
LWP::UserAgent (i.e. libwww-perl-6.35). But libwww-perl does not mention
LWP::Protocol::https.

Perhaps that mention should be made and LWP::Protocol::https moved to
the module dependencies section. I'd also add a note that
LWP::Protocol::https is not automatically installed by the cpan method.
Post by Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
That probably dates from somebody (looking at other changes a couple
of days ago, I guess it was Randy) having enthusiasm for Perl
modules.
But to answer the question: if you use remote bib (i.e.
bibliography) files (accessed by https://) in biber, the CPAN
install will use Mozilla::CA to validate the certificates - and
Mozilla::CA was last updated in January so it lags behind the system
certificates from mozilla, and it also will not use any local
certificates.
However, using remote bib files (which only works with biber, not
the earlier (La)TeX bibliography package - bibtex, I think) is not
a common thing.
And I think I mentioned it in the initial paragraphs of the new
perl-modules page.
Not specifically that I can see.

-- Bruce
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Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
2018-11-05 17:40:12 UTC
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Post by Bruce Dubbs via blfs-dev
Post by Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
One question I have is what are the consequences of using the cpan install
for LWP::Protocol::https? That does not use the patch. As best I can tell,
a grep for LWP::Protocol::https only shows up in biber and then only in XML
comments. Can you clarify?
We mention LWP::Protocol:https in libwww-perl, unless I accidentally
deleted that (which is possible) - something like "if you wish to
use https:// now install LWP::Protocol::https".
It does say in LWP::Protocol::https that it provides https support for
LWP::UserAgent (i.e. libwww-perl-6.35). But libwww-perl does not mention
LWP::Protocol::https.
It turns out the comment was not there (technically, omitted rather
than deleted). Added in r20681.
Post by Bruce Dubbs via blfs-dev
Perhaps that mention should be made and LWP::Protocol::https moved to the
module dependencies section. I'd also add a note that LWP::Protocol::https
is not automatically installed by the cpan method.
No. LWP::Protocol::https is a dependency of biber, so it goes in
'Modules', libwww-perl is a dependency of that.

There is no particular reason for anyone using libwww-perl (e.g. for
web activities) to expect the https:// protocol to be installed,
other than the general non-LFS move away from insecure http://.
Post by Bruce Dubbs via blfs-dev
Post by Ken Moffat via blfs-dev
That probably dates from somebody (looking at other changes a couple
of days ago, I guess it was Randy) having enthusiasm for Perl
modules.
But to answer the question: if you use remote bib (i.e.
bibliography) files (accessed by https://) in biber, the CPAN
install will use Mozilla::CA to validate the certificates - and
Mozilla::CA was last updated in January so it lags behind the system
certificates from mozilla, and it also will not use any local
certificates.
However, using remote bib files (which only works with biber, not
the earlier (La)TeX bibliography package - bibtex, I think) is not
a common thing.
And I think I mentioned it in the initial paragraphs of the new
perl-modules page.
Not specifically that I can see.
-- Bruce
I did mention it, but not there - if you read the 'Installation'
section of the package, it says why the patch is used, and what CPAN
will do instead. The ')' was misplaced and the HTTP in the
introdiction had become HT~TP : my K120 keyboard seems to generate ~
in strings of capitals and I don't always notice. Fixed in the same
revision.

ĸen
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